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	<title>Comments on: In love as it is in war</title>
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	<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/</link>
	<description>Where Words and Imagination Meet</description>
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		<title>By: Sunday Pleasures #42 &#171; Year of the Word</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-740</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunday Pleasures #42 &#171; Year of the Word</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 00:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-740</guid>
		<description>[...] In Love as it is in War, Elizabeth Bear [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In Love as it is in War, Elizabeth Bear [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jesusangelgarcia</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>jesusangelgarcia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-246</guid>
		<description>Funny, I found while writing &quot;badbadbad,&quot; a novel about sex, God, rock &#039;n&#039; roll, and the social Web, that the sex and preacher scenes came most easily. Ahem... what&#039;s that say about me? I&#039;ll leave that question for the therapist. Wait, I quit therapy. Guess you best watch out, people. 

As Ms. Bear points out, a sex scene is like any other: it has to &quot;feel real&quot; and the reader has to &quot;be there,&quot; thoroughly engrossed. On a good day or night, that involves some sort of turn-on. But not all sex is a turn-on. So however the scene plays out, it needs to hum with vivid emotional, physical, and psychological detail, not unlike any other part of the narrative, si?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny, I found while writing &#8220;badbadbad,&#8221; a novel about sex, God, rock &#8216;n&#8217; roll, and the social Web, that the sex and preacher scenes came most easily. Ahem&#8230; what&#8217;s that say about me? I&#8217;ll leave that question for the therapist. Wait, I quit therapy. Guess you best watch out, people. </p>
<p>As Ms. Bear points out, a sex scene is like any other: it has to &#8220;feel real&#8221; and the reader has to &#8220;be there,&#8221; thoroughly engrossed. On a good day or night, that involves some sort of turn-on. But not all sex is a turn-on. So however the scene plays out, it needs to hum with vivid emotional, physical, and psychological detail, not unlike any other part of the narrative, si?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Joe Iriarte</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Iriarte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-240</guid>
		<description>D&#039;Oh! Typo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D&#8217;Oh! Typo!</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Iriarte</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Iriarte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-239</guid>
		<description>*grin* Yes, you did say that. Sometimes I have to work around to things in my own slow way is wall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*grin* Yes, you did say that. Sometimes I have to work around to things in my own slow way is wall.</p>
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		<title>By: Fiona Skye</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator>Fiona Skye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-238</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never thought of a sex scene in terms of advancing the plot or revealing something about my characters.  I just wrote them because the timing seemed right for one.  Now I&#039;ve got to go back through my MS and make sure I&#039;ve not written sex for sex&#039;s sake.  Thanks for the great tip!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never thought of a sex scene in terms of advancing the plot or revealing something about my characters.  I just wrote them because the timing seemed right for one.  Now I&#8217;ve got to go back through my MS and make sure I&#8217;ve not written sex for sex&#8217;s sake.  Thanks for the great tip!</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Bear</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-234</guid>
		<description>Joe, that&#039;s actually my point. If you check my second paragraph, it&#039;s all about the various things *any* scene should do. 

If it doesn&#039;t, that&#039;s just bad writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, that&#8217;s actually my point. If you check my second paragraph, it&#8217;s all about the various things *any* scene should do. </p>
<p>If it doesn&#8217;t, that&#8217;s just bad writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Iriarte</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Iriarte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-232</guid>
		<description>Lenora Rose:

Thanks for the example. I haven&#039;t seen &lt;i&gt;King Kong&lt;/i&gt;, but that makes sense to me. As a reader, I&#039;m too OCD to skip anything; if it&#039;s not good, I&#039;ll just read it and get annoyed. *grin* I think Bear&#039;s point and your point indicate a larger issue: everything in a story should change something or reveal something. I&#039;ve read--and written *wince*--plenty of scenes that are just brain candy, just there because &quot;Wouldn&#039;t this be cool?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lenora Rose:</p>
<p>Thanks for the example. I haven&#8217;t seen <i>King Kong</i>, but that makes sense to me. As a reader, I&#8217;m too OCD to skip anything; if it&#8217;s not good, I&#8217;ll just read it and get annoyed. *grin* I think Bear&#8217;s point and your point indicate a larger issue: everything in a story should change something or reveal something. I&#8217;ve read&#8211;and written *wince*&#8211;plenty of scenes that are just brain candy, just there because &#8220;Wouldn&#8217;t this be cool?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 06:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-230</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by Storytellers: New post: In love as it is in war (http://cli.gs/S0vMH) http://cli.gs/S0vMH...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by Storytellers: New post: In love as it is in war (<a href="http://cli.gs/S0vMH" rel="nofollow">http://cli.gs/S0vMH</a>) <a href="http://cli.gs/S0vMH" rel="nofollow">http://cli.gs/S0vMH</a>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lenora Rose</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Lenora Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-229</guid>
		<description>Joe Iriarte:

I think that the assumption that fight scenes have inherent conflict is actually part of why some readers (And movie-watchers) skip them. because if a source of conflict, character, and plot is assumed, then there&#039;s no attempt on the writer&#039;s part to actually integrate or illuminate plot or character or theme in the process.

The most obvious examples come out of the film industry. There are, for instance, several quite extended fight scenes in King Kong where you can ask yourself afterwards: How did that advance the plot? Did it tell us a single thing we didn&#039;t already know about the fighters or the witnesses? Did it highlight a theme or a hitherto unknown aspect of the world?

And the answer is, quite often, not much. The woman is still running away from the ape and/or clinging to him as her protector. The dinosaurs are still horribly dangerous. The filmmaker is still an egotistical grandstander. The island doesn&#039;t look any different. The plot stops dead for spider pit and/or tyrannosaurus. Whoop-de-do. If you like them for themselves, that&#039;s fine, too, I suppose, but being stuck watching bits of it again on a long plane trip, I was struck by how little story there is between fights.

Or, of course, almost any car chase ever.

And yes, I can think of umpteen counterexamples where fights do matter and are interesting; but I would guess fewer readers skip those, because they aren&#039;t set aside with a big marker saying &quot;Look! Obligatory scene of battle!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Iriarte:</p>
<p>I think that the assumption that fight scenes have inherent conflict is actually part of why some readers (And movie-watchers) skip them. because if a source of conflict, character, and plot is assumed, then there&#8217;s no attempt on the writer&#8217;s part to actually integrate or illuminate plot or character or theme in the process.</p>
<p>The most obvious examples come out of the film industry. There are, for instance, several quite extended fight scenes in King Kong where you can ask yourself afterwards: How did that advance the plot? Did it tell us a single thing we didn&#8217;t already know about the fighters or the witnesses? Did it highlight a theme or a hitherto unknown aspect of the world?</p>
<p>And the answer is, quite often, not much. The woman is still running away from the ape and/or clinging to him as her protector. The dinosaurs are still horribly dangerous. The filmmaker is still an egotistical grandstander. The island doesn&#8217;t look any different. The plot stops dead for spider pit and/or tyrannosaurus. Whoop-de-do. If you like them for themselves, that&#8217;s fine, too, I suppose, but being stuck watching bits of it again on a long plane trip, I was struck by how little story there is between fights.</p>
<p>Or, of course, almost any car chase ever.</p>
<p>And yes, I can think of umpteen counterexamples where fights do matter and are interesting; but I would guess fewer readers skip those, because they aren&#8217;t set aside with a big marker saying &#8220;Look! Obligatory scene of battle!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Good advice&#8230; &#171; On the back of the people&#8217;s burro</title>
		<link>http://storytellersunplugged.com/blog/2009/11/23/love-and-war/comment-page-1/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Good advice&#8230; &#171; On the back of the people&#8217;s burro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storytellersunplugged.com/?p=473#comment-224</guid>
		<description>[...] Good&#160;advice&#8230;  Great note on writing sex scenes from Elizabeth Bear: Here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Good&nbsp;advice&#8230;  Great note on writing sex scenes from Elizabeth Bear: Here [...]</p>
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